並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep32-%E9%AC%BC%E6%BB%85-%E8%90%AC%E8%81%96%E7%AF%80-%E5%B0%8F%E6%9C%8B%E5%8F%8B%E5%B0%B1%E6%98%AF%E8%A6%81%E5%90%83%E5%BD%A9%E8%99%B9%E7%B3%96-%E6%9C%80%E7%B4%85%E6%81%90%E6%80%96%E9%81%8A%E6%88%B2-%E8%B5%B0%E5%9B%89%E5%A4%A7%E5%AE%B6%E4%B8%80%E8%B5%B7%E6%8E%A2%E9%9A%AA%E9%AC%BC%E5%B1%8B%E5%90%A7/id1517559269?i=1000497710348