並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E5%B7%A5%E4%B8%89%E5%B0%8F-ep-32-%E6%AF%9B%E9%AB%AE%E6%82%9A%E7%84%B6%E6%98%AF%E7%82%BA%E4%BD%95-%E4%B8%AD%E4%BA%8C%E9%AB%AE%E5%9E%8B%E5%A5%88%E5%B9%BE%E4%BD%95/id1561843581?i=1000540583968