並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%90%9B%E5%90%89%E6%AA%B8%E6%AA%AC/ep8-%E8%B2%A0%E8%83%BD%E9%87%8F%E5%8B%B5%E5%BF%97%E8%AA%9E%E9%8C%84%E6%BB%BF%E6%BB%BF%E7%9A%84%E5%B9%B9%E8%A9%B1-%E6%AF%92%E9%9B%9E%E6%B9%AF%E7%AF%87-BsgPXNlanD8/